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[Table] IamA guy who quit his job and gambled everything on an indie game Kickstarter - and passed his goal yesterday. AMA!

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Date: 2013-08-11
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Questions Answers
You had me at David Lynch, What types of influences from Lynch will you be bringing into Tangiers? Three specifics from Lynch that I can jump on - the conversation at the start (near the start? between the two women) of Inland Empire, and how wonderfully disconnected it was. Theater scene in Mulholland Drive. Whole texture and ambiance of Eraserhead. Ofc won't be cutting and pasting those in, but the emotive effect of those scenes, and some of the techniques will be going (and are) in to Tangiers.
Fav movies. lynch is always playing with good and evil, also with key masters who lead the way. is there sort of a good world in tangiers? I think we'll be stepping out of the way of Lynch's good and evil, going more for an amoral watch. When it comes to those sorts of themes, we're sticking ourselves in with the more Burroughsian slant of control and freedom.
So, for DND terms, you're focusing more on the law and chaos axis as opposed to the good and evil axis? Sounds interesting. DND idea of law pushed to a grotesque, almost Kafka-esque level, I'd say.
Just listened to that "Kick that Habit Man" song and it's cut-up lyrics are perfect for that machinery level video! :D. :D I wonder how much it would cost to license...
Was there a particular work or event that inspired you to create Tangiers, other than the general influences you list on your Kickstarter page? Nothing that I'd put down as a specific moment, but a time spent in a psychiatric unit was when I said "right, I'm turning everything around and devoting myself to something". Looking at others work, I think it might be David Cronenberg's videodrome that made me want to be creative! I loved that film (and still do) so much!
An excellent film - certainly one of my favorites, and one that has never been equalled IMHO. Thanks! But I'm hoping for a Notch level of success and wealth, so hopefully a second Kickstarter will not be nescacary.
Care to expand on that experience? I've also spent some time in a psychiatric unit and would be grateful to hear of them. One day, but I'm not quite ready to expose myself that much just yet :)
Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Congratulations on hitting your goal, and best of luck! No problem!
Necessary. That's the word you're looking for mate. Not trying to be rude or anything. Thanks. I'm entirely incapable of spelling that word (and a fair few others) for some reason... I generally rely on a built in spell check, but I'm using someone elses PC at the moment and they seem to have that disabled.
Your pitch video reminds me of Garth Marenghi. Was that intentional? Hahah, not really. The dodgey lighting is because I... inadvertantly left a loaf of bread on the other end of the sofa. It was distracting and I had to mask it somehow.
Well the game looks great. Well done on reaching your target. I hope the bear pit makes a cameo appearance, that place always felt like game environment! Hah! You have to stealth through without being asked for 20p.
I'm interested because an older family member is going to run a campaign soon to try and fund getting his childrens music album animated. He's asked for my help but I'm not really any more savvy about this than he is! With press, I put together an initial collection of 100 writers, sites and journalists, researching those who would be specifically interested. Send personalised emails to each one of them. Did so in three waves, taking on board feedback with each one. Include a link to a press-kit with good copy for any articles and any visual materials. If no response, I tried again a week and a half later, with some slightly new information and approach.
Being a fellow Bristolian, are there any plans to introduce some Brizzle-specific elements to Tangiers: - Banksy graffiti that you can use to help your game if you get stuck, - Roni Size-esque music, - a level themed around Portishead (with associated quirky music), - some Grommits - or a vacuous hellish level called Cribbs Causeway / Oceania / The Mall? Not been able to get hold of Edge - there doesn't appear to be any contact information on their site at all!
Great job on getting funded by the way, Tangiers isn't my usual kinda game, but the artistic style and game elements suckered me in. I know a dude who works for Edge (the UK Gaming magazine) who I could point Tangiers to if it might help funding the final couple of days, or have you hit them up already? There'll be a lot of Bristolian influence - especially in the architecture and how the architecture to a degree spells out the history of the place. We've also got the arches :)
Aha, OK, I'll Facebook my mate (old school friend but not spoken in a while so can't promise anything) and point him towards you guys and cross my fingers. Cheers Prupert. If he does it'll be a big big help :)
The stretch goal for enhanced character dynamics sounds amazing to me. Is there any chance that you could include it in some form of DLC should the game do well enough upon release? Potentially, if enough people request it. We're going to be building up to a big free expansion six months after Tangiers, and then general extra releases and features for atleast the following year. (All dependent on it giving us enough money to eat though!)
Congratulations on getting funded! My out-in-left-field question is, will anyone be able to mod or create maps for it? No mods or maps. But! We're using Unity, and some short time after release, we'll be putting together all of our stealth code and AI into a tool kit, which we'll be releasing for free :)
Free as in freedom? Or free as in beer? Both! Free beer and we give you the recipe.
Did you have game dev/programming experiance prior to the kickstarter? If no, I'll have some followups. This is the first game I've worked on, though I've dabbled on and off in programming, level design etc for years. Solidly working on it for 12 months to get myself up to speed before getting the project in a position where we're ready too launch and actually complete it within a year. On a coding front, we're 2 months away from being robust and feature complete.
Have you ever completed a game or program? Nope.
Will you be contributing code to game? Yeaup, and most of that side is complete.
Are there other people helping you make the game? If yes, I'm curios how you are paying your programmers? Did you give them a salary of some sort, payment from kickstarter, or maybe a % of the sales? If we get enough to bring someone with a more dedicated focus on the code, then it'll be someone I'm already close to(a lot of people from school etc went into coding). That'll be a mix of Kickstarter funds to keep them alive and with the occasional treat, and then % of sales. Team is already four of us - Myself, Michael whose more of an assistant, Catt (artist) and Joseph (music)
Was it hard putting that team together? How did you find them and build your team? Putting them together, I wanted people I would be comfortable with, so it came from friends of friends or direct friends. Michael I've known forever, had him in mind from the start. The other two came from sending loose specs, seeing what they came out with, seeing if that matched my line of thought. Those two did... and very well, quite a few others didn't.
I've dabbled with driving a car and I'm going to start a kickstarter to turn me into a Nascar driver! Good luck! I hope it goes well for you.
What do you expect your main role/job to be as lead dev? Are you going to be contributing an equal amount of code? Or do you plan to delegate tasks and test things? As a lead dev, I'm going to be working on the management side as much as the creative one (though that does ofc include managing consistency etc). With resources so tight, I need to make sure that we make best of everything we have, efficiency is key. If we get a dedicated coder, then I'll be letting go of that side almost completely, though still sorting out the scripting of any one off events.
I'm assuming the game is going to have some form of music? If yes, is the musician a friend as well or did you hire him? If you did hire him, how did you find him and what does that cost? Musician was someone my better half knew. Sent over a few keywords and concepts that I wanted the soundtrack to embody. The few tracks he sent me matched what I wanted to express perfectly.
How long to you expect the project to complete? We've got 12 months to complete the project, we have been working on it for sometime already.
What do you have planned for the future if the game is a success or failure? If it fails, will you try again or...? If its a success will you be reinvesting in the studio or a new game or maybe going on a big vacation? The game won't be released until it's a success as a game - but the faith of our backers rests on getting it out within that 12 month period, which we're mindful of. If it is a failure at market, then I've no idea what I'll do - depends on why it failed. If a success, everythings going back into the studio.
Thanks for answering all my questions. I'm looking forward to the finished product! Thank you! Were they satisfactory? Wasn't sure if you were trying to catch me out on anything heh.
Yeah, they were satisfactory! I wasn't try'n to catch you on anything or bust your balls. I was/am genuinely curious about the dev side/business side of it all! :-D. Cool! I get paranoid about how the whole "first time developer" thing comes off - but people have been pretty cool about it actually :)
Talk technical to me! What sort of tools you use, how do you prepare graphics and audio, interesting programming problems you ran into, etc. Also, dogs or cats? Using Unity as a base (what Indy dev doesn't these days?). Antares Vizio, a visual C# interface for most of the coding, because it lets me debug and reprogram when the game is running. Back to standard C# where Antares is lacking. Graphics workflow goes two ways betwen us - I whitebox levels, Michael turns that into a loose set of architecture, I add the definition and back to Michael to texture. I get quite impatient, so it keeps me moving from task to task. Strangely that doesn't apply to programming - I can code solid for a day and not notice the time pass!
The whole words mechanic in the game came from a design quirk. In the game, spoken language materialises into the world, and you can use it as a tool. This idea came from accidentally applying physics properties to a debug indicater, lol.
I'm full on cats. Michaels agressively dogs.
You said that the cut-up technique is in part inspired by Dishonored, which was my initial impression as well. As you know, Dishonored had its opinion about the type of gameplay favored by its player: In a sense, high chaos players, who preferred more bloodshed, were punished by a much more negative story progression and a fairly cruel ending. It was Dishonored's way of disapproving of typical FPS gameplay, something I found myself disagreeing with. Will Tangiers be making similar value judgments of players' performance? No. I'm staying away from any moral (appropriate, given the Burroughs influence) or gameplay judgement. The balance and challenge with having the world change is to make it change in such a manner that it allows more opportunities for the styles of play that cause the change.
A problem I personally ran into before deciding on what I wanted to work on (though I never brought it near your level) - assuming you had several ideas for a game, what was the second best idea that Tangiers won out over? Immersive Sim/Social survival horror in space. Think System Shock meets Pathologic. 14 days where everything is going wrong on a spacecraft, as people get killed off they split into different factions, etc. Manipulations and intrigue. But: Everything is driven by the AI, your social interactions fueling much of the late game. Towards the end, it's you and maybe 4/5 other people trying to survive. Their dispositions are driven by your interactions with them earlier on. Some might betray you for personal survival, others might sacrifice.
Didn't make it because there's no way I actually could just yet.
Oh man, that sounds GREAT. I hope you're keeping that one filed away. When I feel I'm able to do it, I'm jumping right to the challenge. Could be a good few years though ;)
THAT SOUNDS AMAZING! It's so sad we never got much System Shock other than Dead Space which was meant to be System Shock 3 apparently but really isn't. I spent the entirity of Dead Space thinking "damn, this -almost- feels like system shock". Then I read that it wa-
Toughts on piracy? How worried are you about Tangiers being pirated? I don't really think it's worth the effort, worrying about it. People who will, will... I can't stop that. If people are curious enough to play the game, I'm thankful that I've grabbed their attention to be honest :) I hope though, that the personal element of the project comes through, and people enjoy it enough to later buy the game (even if they wait for a steam sale :P )!
I read somewhere that you were influenced by Throbbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire. I was wondering, if true, would these influences be indicative of Tangiers' soundtrack? Also, are there any other musical influences to the project? We're taking heavy influence from those two groups, especially from the paranoia and fragile nature of Cabaret Voltaire's instrumentation. Extracting similar from the first two Clock DVA releases. Also see Oophoi and Lustmord as our other strong points of reference. A big blend of early industrial and ambient.
Excellent. Thank you so much for the link. It's nice to see an approach to music not typical of gaming. Fits perfectly. Cheers. One of the characteristics that I'm aiming for with Tangiers is that it's outward looking, or rather it takes more inspiration from outside the medium than it does from within. While, of course, understanding that it is a game and not a film or whatever.
How and where did you first learn Programming? What other skills are needed to finish a game? Are there any tutorials or websites that helped you out tremendously? (Including those when you first started and graduated from) First learnt programming when I was 12. Gone back to it every couple of years on and off. Spent a year before starting Tangiers intensively re-learning, bringing myself up to date and competent with that and other skills.
What program did you use to create your game? Would you make more games? Using the Unity engine, it's a fantastic piece of kit. Basic version is free and there are LOADS of great tutorials for it (and the coding side) up around the site. This alone makes for the perfect starting point.
What is the potential of indie gaming and would it survive in the future? Just me and Michael. No payment what so ever at the moment. Would recommend monthly though, atleast in the UK you can go through PAYE, maxing tax paperwork a lot easier.
If it is monthly payment, money coming out of your pocket would be a huge blow, wouldn't it? And having less money would be a great deterrent. Don't quite follow the monthly payment question... bit sleepless still (been traveling back home today), rephrase it for us? :)
How did you arrive at an estimated delivery date of August 2014? Looked at what we've got already, how long it'll take to finish the coding side off. Then looked at how fast we are with our workflow and area design, and extrapolated that. Then added an extra month as a (inevitably used) buffer. Bearing in mind that we're working 70 hour weeks at a minimum during this.
70 hours, bloody hell. Considering how many articles I've read about the man hours of game developers, I'm not particularly envious to be on that side. That's what we've maintained so far. During the campaign at the moment, with a few exceptions we've been doing nothing else. Waking up and falling asleep to the Kickstarter page!
How did you price the kickstarter? Does it just cover the development and for living costs during the development? What is your plan after its been finished? Living off the revenue of the game? Make another game? Find a new job? Kickstarter covers the costs for us to live and compensation for our freelancers (who are as excited about this as we are, and are going very below rate). Also covers overheads such as software licenses, backer rewards and taxes. On release, we hope to sell enough to feed ourselves! If we can get the game out properly and market it, then we plan on supporting it with free updates over the following year (a big stand alone one six months in), while phasing into development of a second title.
What was the point in your job where you quit? Did one particular customer cause you to snap? Not customers, I've always been pretty cool with handling the difficult ones (always been the guy people send in their way actually!) It was mostly down to being on the verge of getting my own store, but events outside of my control taking it away, and then pushing me down on to the bottom of the ladder again (arbitrary redundancies, restructuring, etc). Had another one of those and that lead to the "fuck this" moment.
For those who are wondering: "redundancies" is a British euphemism for "people losing their jobs". The American word "firings" comes close, I think. Hah! I didn't realise it was a UK only word. It's generally a diktat from head office - in this case it was "Get rid of the two staff with the lowest length of service in this store". Ignoring any performance measures, etc. Harrumph.
You've mentioned that you'd like to get a third developer on the team, and that is what you'd be doing if you get funded beyond the 35k goal. Now that we're moving up beyond the initial amount, at what point is the third developer definitely in the picture? It's not mentioned in your stretch goals but your recent update/comments suggest in the 40k range? And do you have an idea as to whom it would be? Also, congrats again. :D. Original plan was for a full time developer, and that would require the 60k range. That was my... dream scenario, can be a bit of a blue sky thinker haha. At the moment, I can probably get someone else in at £47k, albeit working half-time. Who? There's a few people available. Waiting on seeing how much resources we've got before I start talking to them :)
What inspired you to create this game? Was it planned when you quit your job? Is there any advice you'd give to someone who is planning to create and indie game in a similar manner? Main advice would be that you can do it, and should learn everything. Don't rely on other people to come up with graphics, animation etc - the more you learn about that yourself, the more self sufficient you will be. You'll find people, but don't wait for them.
I just wanted to congratulate you. I really like the concept of the game. You had me at cut-up. Can you explain a bit more how you plan to incorporate the technique into the game/gameplay? How about Dream Machines as save or teleport devices? Link to Experimented with a few different design ideas, much with the teleport/dream machine concept. They seemed a bit too... gimmicky in terms of gameplay mechanic? Like they'd be better suited for a puzzel game, or portal style central focus. Instead, we're going similar to Dishonored's Chaos system. The more you interact with the world, the more cut-up it becomes. Fragments of areas you interacted serve to rebuild future locations, both affecting aesthetics and game flow. Mostly procedural, but guided slightly.
Teleport in the sense of fast travel between major areas...or like the make campfire mechanic in Red Dead Revolver. Ah, I see. We're not going to be putting any fast travel in the game - The actual, on foot travel, and the events and areas you come across are a major part of Tangiers. Following on from that, it's a very forward moving game - it should feel more like a road movie than the back and forwards of Skyrim etc.
Ok that makes sense then. Again, I just wanted to say I'm so glad you got your funding. I'm really looking forward to your updates and eventually release! Fnord! Thanks few23! Looking forwards to the journey ahead of us :)
Do you need a composer? I'd like to help. Link to We've already got someone on board, but thanks anyway :)
Guessing either exclusively Steam (blech) or hopefully just a binary package? Steam seems open to various licensing packages - plenty of games that are available DRM free + on the platform, and there's the humble bundle as well...
, just to put you under MORE do you deal with Linux piracy? How, why, and with what philosophies will you cope with your largely free-to-acquire, fund us! - type games fare? Re: Piracy - Don't really care about that too much. It's essentially unavoidable, and one of the reward tiers is that the game copies are DRM-Free. If the big guns can't stop it with all their resources, no way that I can!
But piracy on Linux is obscure, but not unheard of by any means. And, how pissy will Steam be if you offer separate binaries under different pricing/licensing packages? Not going to be steam exclusive, primary release will be the DRM free distribution. Aiming for Desura as a platform for that, but also have access to a private server option.
Did you ever have trouble motivating yourself to do the massive amount of work this must've took? Also, how'd you go about learning programming? Did your previous job involve it, therefore making it part of your career? Or was it sort of just a side interest for you? No trouble motivating myself - the fact that I was actually working on something that I enjoyed was incredibly rewarding. With programming, up until I was about 16/17, I wanted to become a programmer. Back then, it was pretty much all I did when I wasn't at school! I was suprised at how quickly I picked it all back up again, and got to speed and a level of competence after all these years... there's been very few roadblocks on the coding side of things where we are now.
How do you think enough people saw your project? Did you advertise? Is this the first time you posted to reddit? It's split three ways betwen word of mouth, Kickstarter's own promotions and press coverage. Not the first time I've posted to Reddit, but it is the first time I've gotten any replies :D.
What's your history with art and the avant-garde? Did you study it previously? Nothing formal on that front, though it's something I've been immersed in for (most) of the past decade... I've got a whole bookshelf just on books related to Dada, hehe.
Do you plan any Futurist (as in, Italian Futurism) influences in your game? Seems right up your alley. If you haven't already, read the futurist's manifesto. I enjoy a lot of the Futurist aesthetic, not so much the underlying concepts - too steeped in bravado for my liking. In many ways it's direct opposition to Dada, which I connect far, far more strongly with.
Why did you choose that 'Tangiers' is going to be the name of your game? Does the city Tangier (morocco) has something to do with it? The city Tangier had a big role in William S. Burroughs writing, especially within Naked Lunch, where he wrote a large portion of the novel. Took form as the absurdist and grotesque interzone. The (slightly archaic) name "Tangiers" was originally a sign post pointing to Burrough's own influence; thought it would be appropriate considering that we're very influenced ourselves. As development progressed, "Tangiers" moved from a non-diagetic name to encompassing the game world itself.
You know what's weird I just watched the episode of 30 rock where Tracy Morgan has to get a tattoo of his wife Angie and gets the idea to just sharpie over it and make it say Tangiers. Do you find this weird? Haha, I find it weird how many people that happens to! You must be the third or fourth since we announced the game? :D
What would you have done if you hadn't reached your goal? Absolutely no idea. Can juggle having no income (not that I'm making anything off of Tangiers, less than minimum wage to cover food and rent basically) for a certain amount of time, but not for that long. Without the Kickstarter I'd be evicted quite soon and then downward spiral.
So I just saw the page and to be honest it looks amazing. one question though why did you choose the name Andalusian? ( just asking out of curiosity) Luis Bunuel and Dali had a surrealist film - Un Chien Andalou. (An Andalusian Dog). It was one of those key moments in discovering art for me.
Considering you say the game has been inspired by Thief, was first person a thought in the start? Then it became where you wanted to show the creepy spider-y player character moving around? Is it more Thief because you can be nonviolent or do ghost walkthroughs without touching an enemy? Will taffers be involved? There's been periods where I've gone into experimenting with first person, but from the start it's been in third. Firstly because it fits better with the aesthetic and the general direction of the game - seeing yourself in relation to the world is a big part of the emotive connection. The world has a... lesser impact when you're seeing it in first person, converse to what would be expected... Secondly is a personal reaction, of sorts. Up until relatively recent times, I was a pretty hard core angry internet man about PC gaming and "Consolization", with first person being an absolute must for any level of immersion or enjoyment! Having matured out of that foolishness, it's a challenge I set purposely set myself to incorporate. Nonviolence and ghost walkthroughs are very much inherited from Thief. A lot of the ambient "feeling" of the game comes from it... in so many terms, I'm looking at Thief as the bar I want to reach close to. And Taffers? There might be a sly easter egg or two? ;)
What will you do if your next game doesn't make as much money as this one? Sell out and fill my third one with mass market appeal.
What's your history with stealth games? I know Tangiers got inspiration from the Thief series, but have you played other titles like Splinter Cell, Hitman, and Dishonored? Played a lot of stealth games, though I veer towards the more open, Thief type approach. The other approach is to have very rigid, very finely defined situations - these stealth games feel more like a puzzle game, I don't really enjoy that to be honest. Absolutely loved Dishonored - one of my favourite games in the past 10 years. Beautiful in almost every way.
Congratulations! My questions is about quitting your job and making such a great change in your life, how did you feel? what was your motivation? On quitting my job, I felt a great sense of relief. As the weeks and months went by though, it became a fairly claustrophobic sense of determination as money tightened to next to nothing. Main motivation was a build up of stagnation, that one shift where you reflect upon things and realise that you are going absolutely nowhere unless you take the plunge.
Can you name a project on Kickstarter that deserves way more support than Tangiers? Also, can you name a project that should not have gotten any support at all? My favourite project at the moment is Fran Bow.
Link to
Wonderfully quirky dark point and click adventure game, with a certain childlike charm... comes across as a bit over the top in parts, but talking to the developers behind it it's incredibly personal and exposing.
Obviously since you quit your job, game development must mean a lot to you. What's been the most rewarding part of this process and what are you looking forward to the most approaching the release of the game? The single most rewarding part was pulling all the rough prototypes (every character is a capsule, etc) together and "put the graphics in". Seeing everything to the abstract to something that actually felt like a game had me smiling for weeks.
I'm in a similar situation you were up to four months ago. I'm working a dead end retail job dreaming of a dream almost too unrealistic. Except I aspire to compose music for games and movies instead. Would you advise others with such dreams to take your gambling approach to success, or should they try a safer route since most people won't be as lucky nor skilled are you are? Always, always find a safer route. As a tip to becoming a composer - build relationships with game designers or at-least the community before pitching to them. I get maybe 3-5 pitches a day for that! Always appreciate the interest, but in all honestly I'm far more inclined to work with someone I know (of), even if loosely.
Congrats. Learn everything - Coding, Level Design, Graphics, Animation... even if you don't intend to do so in the actual project, it gives you an invaluable understanding, and means you can atleast create placeholder assets when nesacary.
To someone who wants to become a game dev whats your advice would be for him? And be personal. Don't go into it wanting to recreate your favourite game. Draw on everything you can, and make something unique :)
Last updated: 2013-08-15 21:35 UTC
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